Southwest MI Patriots
Liberty and Freedom
St. Joe, Benton Harbor area.
Latest Activity: Sep 12
Started by Jennifer Groves. Last reply by Scott A. Jones May 28.
Started by Scott A. Jones May 28.
Started by Jennifer Groves Dec 13, 2012.
Janet, I was referring to the comment from Mari Krebs, but that seems to have been beyond your memory span.
Comment by Mari Krebson Sunday
Janet, you can look for the truth and find it. But if the truth is said unkindly and disrespectful to the other person, they will not listen to you. What is gained by that?
Let's be courteous to each other, not talking down to each other. If somebody asks you to educate him about a subject, don't say what you said in the below earlier post:
Janet, re: the Qur'an. Have you read it? In chronological order (not numerical order)?
Did you know the Qur'an itself teaches that all revelation is based on abrogation, and that most of the verses in the Qur'an are abrogated? Did you know that is what the Qur'an teaches? the hadith teach? imams teach?
Did you know that, according to the Q and the hadith, Muslims are obligated to lie to non-Muslims at time of war? Did you know that the Qur'an teaches that Muslims are always at war with non-Muslims until Islam prevails "altogether and everywhere"? Which means that it is always OK to lie to non-Muslims. Lying stops when there are no non-Muslims. (Technically, it doesn't stop even then, because Muslims are also permitted to lie to fellow Muslims in certain circumstances.)
We have to stop thinking that it is our opinions on the subject that matter--they don't. I would prefer that the Qur'an did not teach what it teaches, but I can't change it.
I'm afraid many conservatives are firm believers in relativity--which is not what either the Qur'an or Bible are based on. And definitely not a "value" that ppl from non-Western countries share with the West. We make a serious mistake in assuming that our values are universally accepted. They aren't.
Not picking on you per se, Janet--there are many Americans who believe as you do--that everything is dependent on individual interpretation. That's the route of least resistance if one doesn't really want to research something--to go by impressions. To assume that all humans share basic global values. History teaches differently, and it does repeat.
Our Constitution is based on Judeo-Christian values (thank God)--not the teachings of the Qur'an. Not shari'a. If this country was based on those values, we would be Saudi.
There is such a thing as historical fact. But I must get back to work--will post some discussions--based on fact--on the Qur'an in a few days.
I'm promoting no shari'a in the U.S.
Conservatives are the ones who also work--we are not the OWS crowd. I don't believe it's either healthy or helpful to spend too much time online regardless of what sites ppl are visiting. I also don't promote any particular candidates. Remember, not everyone has the same set of values or the same priorities--what bothers me about Paul may not bother you.
My issue is with those who claim to understand a subject enough that they want to argue about it, yet never read the original sources. I'm not happy about the Federal Reserve, for instance, but I know I haven't spent time researching its history and I don't have any interest in doing so. Because I know I don't have a lot of background in FR issues, I don't engage in arguing them one way or the other, and I don't expect everyone to adopt my views on it.
I'll never look at every link or video posted on this site. I do my own research and have no desire to be dragged into what each individual sees as the priority issue. Clearly we all have different priorities. Doesn't mean we can't all support the same mission statement.
We have to choose our battles, and choose wisely.
Here's a neat summary of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" It shows what the TP is up against and I don't think it can be fought with honey. I think the TP should look at it closely. I understand some TP groups are adopting the tactics. This was taken from another forum.
Alinsky Rules For RadicalsRules for Power Tactics:
1. Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.2. Never go outside the experience of your people.3. Whenever possible, go outside of the experience of the enemy.4. Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.5. Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.6. A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside.12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
Because Alinsky was sensitive to criticism that he wasn't ethical, he also included a set of rules for the ethics of power tactics. You can see from these why his ethics were so frequently questioned.
Rules to test whether power tactics are ethical:
1. One's concern with the ethics of means and ends varies inversely with one's personal interest in the issue.2. The judgment of the ethics of means is dependent upon the political position of those sitting in judgment.3. In war the end justifies almost any means.4. Judgment must be made in the context of the times in which the action occurred and not from any other chronological vantage point.5. Concern with ethics increases with the number of means available and vice versa.6. The less important the end to be desired, the more one can afford to engage in ethical evaluations of means.7. Generally, success or failure is a mighty determinant of ethics.8. The morality of means depends upon whether the means is being employed at a time of imminent defeat or imminent victory.9. Any effective means is automatically judged by the opposition to be unethical.10. You do what you can with what you have and clothe it in moral garments.11. Goals must be phrased in general terms like "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," "Of the Common Welfare," "Pursuit of Happiness," or "Bread and Peace
Oh Ha Ha, Ray, that was hilarious.
sorry, I'm chewing on sour grapes right now....I never said I refused to read the Qur'an and hadith. I'm busy trying to save our bill of rights and constitution by promoting Dr. Ron Paul's ideas about freedom, liberty and sound money. We have a primary coming up on the 28th of Feb and I'm trying to inform voters on issues. What are you promoting...Jennifer? What did you think of Money Masters? Or did YOU REFUSE to watch it...just sayin.
Brett, the Qur'an and hadith ARE history books and it's clear you refuse to read them. Which makes me question how much research you are willing to do yourself and what sources you use. Not saying you're necessarily wrong on the other issues, but you really have not bothered to look into Islam at all.
FYI--Islam is NOT a race. Never has been, never will be. Ever wonder where you are getting your info from?
That lie has been on the lips of the MB since the 1960s. The MB is not a reliable source on Islam. They have their own agenda.
This site is hopeless....Go put on your 3-pointed hat and march around demanding more war, more torture, more bailouts, more fed printing of money, more racisim against muslims, more military industrial complex, more drones, more loss of civil liberties, more unconstitutional government...it goes on and on and on....COMPLETELY HOPELESS.
It's going to take a complete collapse for some of you folks to finally wake up...Don't worry your going to get the collapse...it's coming. And it won' t be because the muslims are going to get us. It will be because we spent ourselves into oblivion just like all the other empires before us. For god's sake pick up a history book and stop watching Fox News. Your like sheep being led to the slaughter and your loving every minute of it.
Breaking News.. Paul changes views on foreign policy!
Sherry, what assignments are not filled?
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