Southwest MI Patriots
Liberty and Freedom
St. Joe, Benton Harbor area.
Latest Activity: Sep 12
Started by Jennifer Groves. Last reply by Scott A. Jones May 28.
Started by Scott A. Jones May 28.
Started by Jennifer Groves Dec 13, 2012.
Sherry, Argue? I think the sec.1233 speaks for itself. There are people who are not capable of thinking and rely on someone like columnists to form their opinion for them, and some of those columnists also rely on others to from THEIR opinions. An Example is todays Cal Thomas column.
Note he only parrots what Sarah Palin said and claims the NYT is in agreement. It sould be that a NYT COLUMNIST is in agreement, but regardless, he doesn't refer to that section (1233) in the Bill or that he even read any of it. He also mentions the doctors oath portion which says "I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan". Is there such a plan in the Bill that requests doctors do such a thing. An ACD does not ask for anyone to consent to lethal injection. It only asks that certain treatment be withheld if certain conditions exist.
There is nothing wrong with examining a bill and looking for loopholes etc, but to be paranoid about every possible misuse of every bill is wrong. The next administration will have the opportunity to dismantle the bill and remove the ACD from the Medicare bill. I would hope they base their decision on logic and not emotion or the advice of newspaper columnists. And to ease a few minds on the forum, I do not approve of Obama's health care bill nor the way it was pushed thru.
Happy New Year, everyone!
2012 is another year closer :)
A 13-yr-old victim of gang rape sentenced to die:
This could only happen in Pakistan . . . or Afghanistan . . . or Somalia . . .
Again this is about the BIG picture. What the government can't get done through the legislative process, they will acheive through regulations. To hell and be damned with what the American People want.
We can argue about the language, or whether an ACD is voluntary, but the fact remains these progressives want total control of our lives. And what is a regulation today, might change tomorrow, without the consent of the people.
Name calling, finger pointing and arguing amongst ourselves is exactly what the left wants. They have been trying to divide this country, the Tea Party is about uniting under the common goals of restoring our country and the Constitutional values and principles this country was founded upon. The left finds these ideas obsolete and will do all they can to take away individual rights and freedoms. We can work together to finds ways to defeat these progressive ideas, or spend our time fighting and name calling amongst ourselves. I find the later a waste of time, energy and feeding into the progressive dreams of a collapsed Republic.
Dr.Davis. I am assuming you were talking about Fox discussion with Marc Spiegel.
Here is the link.
It is about 6:40 AM and I don't want to turn the speakers up, but here's what I recall from last night.
The Dr. said he was a believer in ACD's but didn't want the government involved. The only way I saw that the government was getting involved was in paying the Dr. for his time.
He said that he has seen patients with ACD's change their mind about not wanting treatment when they enter the emergency room. ACD's are about situations where you are not capable of speaking etc. If he changed his mind in the ER then he obviously was not unconcious or incapable.
Here is an excerpt from the Medicare site: Emphasis mine.
You ( I'm sure they meant he,not you) also CAN talk with YOU about end-of-life planning, including advance directives. Advance directives are legal documents that ALLOW you to put in writing what kind of health care you would want if you were too ill to speak for yourself. Talking to your family, friends, and health care providers about your wishes is important, but these legal documents make sure your wishes are followed.
I forgot in what context he used "unwanted procedures" but regardless, if you don't want them to do something-should they be able to use you for a guinea pig.
Maybe he meant sonething like CPR. Some do not want CPR should they have a heart attack. Some even wear DNR necklaces.
He mentioned terminal illnesses and said you don't know it's terminal until you try---------. How do you suppose the patient disovered he had a terminal illness? I feel most of them, if not all,had previously undergone diagnoses and treatment. There comes a time when you have to face the doctors findings that modern medicine ot technology is unable to help you. (I would suggest several opinions) but regardless, an ACD is not to end the life of someone who is still capable of making their own decisions, nor is it assisted suicide. As far as the government being involved, I don't feel that paying for an ACD discussion is any more intrusive than their paying for treatment under Medicare.
Sorry you have that feeling, but the whole conversation started with the claim that ACD"s were not voluntary. I posted the section of the bill that reufed that statement and have tried to keep the thread on that topic and don't see where a private conversation between you and your doctor is considered a "death panel" being as the discussion is voluntary and you do not have to agree to anything. It is revokable and you can have another discussion-should you desire-each year.
Since the discussuion started, It has been suggested I am a troll, a Progressive mole, name caller, have been lied about etc.
"He believes the new requirements to do it annually is to get people to prevent the use of life saving measures later in life when people really need them. "
His believing that doesn't make it a fact, it's still only a belief. Some people believe Bush planned 9-11 so he could invade Iraq, or that we fired a missile into the Pentagon, That the CIA stuck thermite explosives in the WTC buildings to cause the pancaking. That the planes were not passenger planes but robotically controlled military planes. All got their 15 minutes of fame, some wrote books and made big bucks off of those who wanted to believe the worst about Bush etc.
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